內賈德舌戰CNN 美國“國嘴”差點倒地吐血!!
一直以來，在我的印象中，伊朗總統內賈德是個思想混亂、行為怪異、不負責任、口無遮攔，經常在國
際社會惹事生非的主，我甚至曾一度認為伊朗人民選這麼個人當總統簡直是自作孽。可沒想到啊，沒想到…
…他近日接受美國有線電視新聞網（即CNN）“拉裡•金訪談”節目專訪的表現，那可真是超級棒啊！他的修養
、風度、睿智、雄辯、膽略以及正義感、使命感都不得了，實屬當今世界頂級人物。我感覺自己被主流媒體
多年來刻意編輯、選擇性播出內賈德的“片言隻語”及視頻、圖片形象給忽悠了。與此相反，拉裡•金這個戴著
西方“普世價值”光環，有著“正義化身”之譽的美國“國嘴”，這次被內賈德打回原形，露出了自己偏執、傲慢、
無知、無賴和小丑的真實嘴臉。
可別小看了這個拉裡•金（Larry King），此人在美國傳媒界數一數二，被譽為“廣播訪問節目的拳王阿裡”。1985年6月，拉裡•金開始主持
CNN的王牌節目《拉裡•金訪談》，他入行以來做過逾4萬個訪問，從福特總統開始，每一任美國總統都接受
過他訪問，拉裡•金訪問過的名人紅星則數不勝數。在美國，拉裡•金的訪談節目平均每晚的觀眾人數都超過
100萬。作為金牌主持人，拉裡•金在美國被推崇備至，傳媒界流傳這樣一句話：“美國人可以不相信總統，
但不能不相信拉裡•金。”他的提問以大膽尖銳著稱，而且總是尋根究底，不管受訪者是誰，他都理直氣壯地“
拷問”對方，一張“鐵嘴”什麼都敢問。他曾經透露自己成功的秘訣，就是在做訪問之前很少甚至完全不做準備
，經常臨場發揮，因為他認為“最好的訪問者是對受訪者知道得最少的人。我討厭問自己已經知道答案的問
題，而且我從不怕問可能很愚蠢的問題”，這種方法被傳媒界認為“的確不是一般人能輕易學會”的。拉裡•金在
美國風頭出盡，所獲榮譽獎章能裝一籮筐，傳媒界無人能望其項背。
毫無疑問，拉裡•金是美國傳媒業大腕，也是美國的重量級人物，他對伊朗總統內賈德的“訪談”非同尋常
，加之美國和伊朗互相“掐”了30多年，這幾年更是劍拔弩張，此時的拉裡•金“訪談”內賈德完全可視為美伊之
間輿論戰的尖峰對決。從他們“談話”的內容和態度看，也的確尖銳對立，火藥味甚濃，要不是在做“訪談”節
目的話，這兩個“寶貝”不打起來才怪。
言歸正傳，拉裡•金不愧是高手中的高手，他向內賈德提出的問題幾乎都有“陷阱”，而且設有“套中套”、“
計中計”，偷換概念、避實就虛這類名堂更是層出不窮，可以肯定一般“人物”將挺不過拉裡•金的第一回合。如
他的第一個問題“你喜歡來美國嗎？”就很難回答且暗含“殺機”，如果內賈德說喜歡，拉裡•金將大侃美國的“文
明和進步”，以及美國對全世界的“影響力”、“吸引力”，肯定會說：“瞧，連伊朗總統都嚮往美國”，順便再“惡
心”一下伊朗存在的“神權”和伊朗政府統治下人民的“不自由”、“不幸福”，甚至可能接著提出“既然喜歡有沒有
考慮將來移民美國”這類令內賈德怒不可遏又不能發作的問題；如果內賈德說“不喜歡”，那拉裡•金又會說“看
來你對美國的怨恨之深已使你喪失了理性，你今天接受採訪恐怕有借機攻擊美國的意圖，你的言論將很難客
觀公正。”
沒想到內賈德那是何等人物，不愧為“精英”中的“精英”，他的“戰法”是“誘敵深入”、“將計就計”、“避虛就實
”、“直擊要害”，同時輔以反詰、質疑、質問，打亂拉裡•金的陣腳，讓他失語、失態，以致失控，最後誘使拉
裡•金說出內賈德他自己想說的話。請看內賈德是怎麼回答前述拉裡•金的第一個問題，他避過了“喜歡”和“不
喜歡”的兩難選擇，而是說在聯合國這樣一個大平臺上各國交流、討論很必要，他看重這次聯合國大會各國
首腦的一般性辯論，這種回答讓拉裡•金毫無文章可做。訪談中亮點多多，最精彩的是美國和以色列能否代
表世界的爭辯；最驚人的是關於歐洲人對猶太人犯了大罪，但到頭來歐美卻以在巴勒斯坦土地上為猶太人建
國來為自己贖罪的對白；最尊嚴的是說伊朗對核武器沒有興趣，認為原子彈沒有用，還將堅決推動世界解除
美國和以色列及其他有核國家的核武；最解氣的是說以色列現總理本來就是個“殺人犯”，美國政府在支持有
罪的以色列政府，美國自己也有滅絕印第安人的不光彩歷史；最可笑的是拉裡•金也稀裡糊塗地說以色列現
總理是獨裁者，每當理缺辭窮、惱羞成怒、呼吸困難時就插播廣告，以便回避問題和找臺階下。
總之內賈德舌戰拉裡•金的訪談節目太有看頭，還是請各位網友直接欣賞吧！
附件：伊朗總統內賈德接受美國有線電視新聞網拉裡-金專訪節目（中英文對白）
伊朗總統內賈德近日接受了美國有線電視新聞網拉裡-金節目的專訪。美國有線電視新聞網北京時間9月
23日播出了這一采談錄。以下是采談錄實錄(中英文對照)：
KING: Mr. President, thank you for coming back to LARRY KING LIVE. Do
you like coming to America?
拉裡-金(後簡稱為金)：總統先生，感謝你回到拉裡-金實況。你喜歡來美國嗎？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： In the name of God, the
compassionate, the merciful, I’’d like to say hello to your audience, to
you and your colleagues, and ask Almighty God to bring health, prosperity
and success to all people and nations and countries。
內賈德(後簡稱為內，通過翻譯)：奉至仁至慈真主之名，我想向你的聽眾、你、你的同事問好。請求萬
能的真主給所有人和所有國家帶來健康、繁榮、成功。
I am interested in traveling to all parts of the world to meet with
people. The United Nations is an important forum for the exchange of
international ideas on how to run international affairs and naturally
people like myself should be actively involved in its work。
我對前往世界各地和人們會面很感興趣。聯合國是一個就如何管理國際事務進行國際想法交流的一個
重要論壇。很自然，像我這樣的人應當積極參與它的工作。
KING: Let’’s get to some current issues. A few days ago, you released
the American hiker, but there is still two captives in Iran. How long will
they be detained?
金：讓我們來談一些時事議題。就在幾天前，你釋放了一名美國徒步者，但仍有兩名徒步者被伊朗關
押。他們要被關押多長時間？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Well, they crossed our borders,
violated the borders, and a judge will take care of their case。
內：哦，他們越過了我們的邊境，侵犯了我們的邊境，一位法官將處理他們的案件。
KING: But you did release one. Is there any chance in the name of
goodwill that you’’ll release the others? There were two hikers who made a
mistake。
金：但你已經釋放了其中的一人。是否存在你以良好願望的名義釋放其他兩位徒步者的可能？兩位徒
步者只是犯了一個錯誤。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： That one person was released on bail
because of mercy, compassion and as a humanitarian gesture. As for the
others, yes, there is a chance, but the judge has to take care of the
case。
內：一個人已因為同情、憐憫、作為一個人道主義姿態獲得保釋。對於其他兩人來說，仍存在保釋的
可能性，但法官得處理該案。
KING: Do you know when?
金：你知道是什麼時候嗎？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： It depends on the judge who will
need to handle the case, issue a verdict. There’’s a process that must go
through。
內：這取決於處理此案的法官，給出判決，必須走這套法律過程。
KING: Do you have any influence in that process?
金：你是否對這一過程有任何影響力？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： I have no influence over it. But I
have suggested for the lady, in her case, that it be regarded with
clemency, mercy and more kindness and compassion to allow her to return to
her family。
內：我對此沒有影響力，但我就女徒步者案件給出了建議，我建議法官對此持寬厚、憐憫和更大的善
意、同情心，以允許她返回美國與家人團聚。
KING: What about bail for the other two?
金：其他兩人是否也能獲得保釋？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： It is possible. It depends on the
judge。
內：這是可能的，這取決於法官。
KING: Would you -- you’’re in New York for a few more days. You will
address the U.N. tomorrow. Would you meet with their families if they
asked to meet with you?
金：你是否，你還要紐約呆上數天，你將于明天向聯合國發表講演。如果徒步者的家人要求會見你，
你是否會見他們？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Our program is closed right now in
terms of the fact that it is a tight schedule. But I’’d have to consider
it. And having said that, I have received no requests。
內：我們的活動安排現在已經結束了，我們的時間表很緊，但我願意考慮這件事。雖然如此，我並沒
有收到請求。
KING: But if they did request, might you consider it?
金：但是如果他們確實提出了請求，你是否會考慮呢？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Yes, I would positively take it into
consideration。
內：是的，我將會積極考慮他們的請求。
KING: That is hopeful。
金：這是有希望的。我們詢問了徒步者鮑爾和法塔爾的家人，他們的母親向你提出了這個問題。這兩
人的母親仍在紐約。
總統先生，當你上一次12個月前在紐約參加聯合國大會時，你承諾將要求司法部門加快處理我們孩子的
案件，就案件表現出最大的寬大。這並沒有發生，我們的心碎了。當你返回德黑蘭，你是否會再次向司法部
門提出要求？
We asked the families -- the families of Shane Bauer and Josh Fattal,
the two prisoners, and their mothers passed this question along to you.
This is from the mothers of the two still there。
Mr. President, the last time you were in New York for the U.N. General
Assembly 12 months ago, you promised to ask the judiciary to expedite our
children’’s case and show maximum leniency. Our hearts are broken that
this has not happened. Please, will you make this request again when you
return to Tehran?
內：我認為，這確實發生了。所有的國家在對待非法越境邊境方面都制訂有嚴格的法律，對這樣的行
為都要進行嚴懲。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： I think that it did happen. In all
countries you have very strict laws and strict punishments for border
crossings that are illegal。
金：你是否提出要求-他們詢問你是否要求司法部門處理此案，他們想念他們的家人。
KING: But did you make the request -- they’’re asking if you would
make the request of the judiciary to move it along. They miss their
families。
內：我認為世界上有非常多的犯人。我是否要親自就他們中的每個人提出要求？
現在，雖然這樣說了，我已要求司法部門仔細研究三名美國徒步者的案件。你知道，世界上有許多犯
人。在美國就有250萬犯人。
我是否可以要求美國的司法部門表現出寬大？事實上，我將抓住這個機會，要求美國的司法部門對美國
的250萬犯人表現出寬大。他們有配偶，他們有母親、孩子、父母。許多人很年輕。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： I think that there are many
prisoners in the world. Do I have to make a personal request for everyone?
Now, having said that, I have requested the judiciary to look at the
case of these three people’’s cases carefully but, you know, there are
many prisoners in the world. Here in the United States, there are 2.5
million。
Can I request the judiciary here in the United States to show leniency
and I would, in fact, seize this opportunity here and ask the judicial
body of the United States, judicial leniency, in the case of the 2.5
million prisoners in this country. They have spouses. They have mothers,
children, parents. Many are young。
金：我們將在廣告時間後繼續與伊朗總統內賈德進行討論。
KING: We’’ll have more with the president of Iran right after this。
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
金：我們回到節目，內賈德總統將于明天向聯合國大會發表講演，美國總統也將向聯合國大會發表講
演。我們將隨後談到這一話題。
羅伯特-萊文森的情況如何？他是前聯邦調查局特工，他已在伊朗失蹤三年了。人們從未聽到有關他的消
息。首先，你是否能告訴我們，他是否還活著，他的狀況是否還好？
KING: We’’re back with President Ahmadinejad. He will address the U.N.
General Assembly tomorrow, as will the president of the United States。
We’’ll ask about that in a minute。
What about Robert Levinson? This is the former FBI agent. He’’s been
missing in Iran for three -- over three years, hasn’’t been heard from.
First, can you tell us, is he alive? Is he OK?
內：我認為我們應當向聯邦調查局提出這個問題。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： I think we should ask that question
from the FBI。
金：但是他是在你的國家裡--
KING: But he’’s in your country --
內：我怎麼會知道？我怎麼應當知道？有許多人來到伊朗，隨後就離開了。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： How would I know? How am I supposed
to know? There are many individuals, many people who come to our country
and then leave。
金：所以說你不知道他在哪裡？
KING: So you have no idea where he is?
內：他來了又走了，和平常一樣，我不知道他在哪裡。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： He came and he left. As usual. No。
金：他的家人稱，他的家人稱，你的政府承諾將就萊文森的失蹤提交一份全面報告，他們在此之後未
聽到任何消息。
KING: His family says -- his family that they were promised a full
report on his disappearance from your government and they have never heard
anything。
內：我們從未作出過那樣的承諾，我們同意與美國政府成立一個聯合的資訊和情報委員會以收集有關他
下落的信息。我們已表示希望儘快成立這個委員會，我們表示，我們作好了加入委員會的準備。如果美國聯
邦調查局願意提供他伊朗之行目的的更多資訊、他知道什麼資訊、他的其它目的地是哪裡，我們可能會就該
案提供進一步的幫助。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： We never made that promise. We
agreed to have a joint information and intelligence committee with the
U.S. government to gather information about his whereabouts, on his
whereabouts, and we have expressed hope that this committee will soon be
held and we express our preparedness to be part of the committee。
Now if the FBI were to give more information about the purpose of this
trip and what information he had and where his other destinations were, we
might be able to assist further in the case。
金：但你不知道他在哪裡？
KING: But you have no idea where he is?
內：你是否有任何資訊？我和你一樣，我對聯邦調查局的專案一無所知。我不知道聯邦調查局在世界
各地從事什麼樣的活動。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Do you have any information? I’’m
like you, I have no idea what the FBI programs are. I don’’t know what the
FBI does around the world。
金：我們昨天與他的妻子克裡斯丁進行了交談。她詢問你是否能提供伊朗官員與聯邦調查局會談和共用
資訊的時間和日期？換句話說，她在說，聯邦調查局願意與你坐下來談。你是否能給她一個時間和日期？
KING: We talked with -- well, we talked with his wife yesterday,
Christine, Mrs. Levinson. She asked that you give her a time and date for
officials to meet with the FBI and share information。
In other words, she is saying the FBI is willing to sit down with your
people. Can you give her a time and date?
內：是的，我接受並同意這一點。當人們旅行遇到問題，失蹤，這使我們感到悲傷。這很可怕。我認為
，當所有的情報組織的活動更加透明，建立在更加人道主義的基礎之上，這樣的問題將不會出現，但我將建
議，情報委員會應當聯合舉行，伊朗和美國的代表可以坐下來，幫助確定他的下落。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Yes, I accept and agree with that.
It saddens us when people travel, run into problems, disappear. It’’s
awful。
I think that if all intelligence organizations work more transparently
and based on more humanitarian principles, these problems would not arise,
but I would recommend that that intelligence committee be held jointly so
that the representatives of Iran and the United States can sit together
and help trace his whereabouts。
金：你知道，他的女兒將于週六結婚。
KING: You know, his daughter is getting married Saturday。
內：我就她結婚表示祝賀。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： I congratulate her on her marriage。
金：如果她的父親能夠出席，那將是非常美好的。
KING: It will be nice if her father were there --
內：我對她表示同情，肯定，她父親能出席將是一件很好的事情，我希望那樣的事情能夠發生。我認為
，美國聯邦調查局應當在這件事更加積極，找到他們的特工。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： And I sympathize with her.
Definitely, it would have been very good. I wish that it can happen. I
think the FBI should be more active in this case and to find their agent。
金：你知道，總統先生，如果那是你的孩子，如果你的孩子之一越過了另一國的邊境並遭到扣押，你
將會非常擔心，你將要求儘快處理案件，是否是這樣？
KING: You know, Mr. President, if it were your children -- if one of
your children crossed the border of another country and were being held,
you would be very concerned and you would press the issue, would you not?
內：如果我的孩子違反了法律，正義必須得到申張，因為法律確保安全、穩定。必須遵守法律，如果
違反了法律，就不會有安全了。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： If my child violates a law, justice
must be served. Because law ensures security. And stability. And laws must
be observed because if they are to be violated, there shall be no
security。
金：我們回來將討論更多議題。不要走開。
KING: We’’ll be right back with more. Don’’t go away。
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
金：我們再次回來，我們正在採訪伊朗總統內賈德。奧巴馬總統和你都在紐約。如果有機會，你是否
會會晤奧巴馬？
KING: We’’re back with the president of Iran, President Ahmadinejad。
With President Obama here and you’’re here, would you meet with him if
the opportunity arose?
內：這得看情況。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： It depends。
金：取決於什麼情況？
KING: On?
內：我們已宣佈，我們作好了在聯大與他進行自由會談的準備。
我認為，在其它成員國和媒體之前坐下來進行，討論我們的觀點將是非常好的事情。在聯合國進行交流
。我認為，這將是非常積極的，因為所有的人都能聽到我們所要說的東西。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： We have announced that we are
prepared to freely talk with him at the U.N. General Assembly。
I think it would be very good to sit before members of other states
and the media and to discuss our views. To have an exchange at the United
Nations. I think that would be very positive so that everyone can hear
what we have to say。
金：希拉蕊國務卿稱，制裁措施正在重創伊朗經濟，甚至伊朗前總統拉夫桑賈尼稱，制裁措施很嚴重，
不能忽視它們。你是否對制裁措施的效果和仍在持續的效果感到擔心？
KING: Secretary of State Clinton says sanctions are biting your
economy. Even the former president, Rafsanjani, said that the sanctions
are serious, can’’t be dismissed. Are you worried about their effect and
their continuing effect?
內：在我看來，你提出了數個議題。問題是美國政府為什麼在聯合國安理會制裁措施之外對伊朗施加
了額外的制裁？這不是非法措施嗎？
這是否是美國人民對伊朗人民、更為重要的是，這是否是美國政府對伊朗政府敵意的表示？
這是一個議題。第二個議題是，對我們來說，制裁措施真得不重要，因為我們在過去三十年裡一直遭到
制裁。此外，我們的經濟也不是建立在美國經濟的基礎之上的，它是一個自力更生的經濟，因為我們能夠滿
足自己的需求。
令人感興趣的是，在遭到制裁期間，我們具備了更多的動力來從事那些使我們經濟跨越式發展的活動
。我們在這方面相當成功。
現在，我們知道，在美國，許多人非常擔心，許多人在制裁方面發出了許多噪音，甚至還援引了伊朗國
內一些人的說法，這些人看起來對制裁措施損害伊朗的觀點持同情立場。
但事實上，我們一點也不擔心制裁措施，制裁措施事實上鼓勵我們更加堅定地追求我們的經濟目標。
美國政府與我們沒有任何關係，在過去三十年裡沒有任何關係。他們採取制裁措施又如何？我們在沒
有美國的情況下生活了三十多年，我們已取得了進步。
當伊朗在美國的控制之下，它是一個落後的國家。自我們在沒有美國的情況下開始生活後，我們已成為
一個先進國家。這是否對我們是一件壞事？我認為這是一個積極的步驟。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： It seems to me that you’’ve raised
several issues. The question is why does the U.S. government place
sanctions that are over above those specified by the U.N.’’s Security
Council? Is that not an illegal measure?
Is it not indicative of the hostility of the U.S., the American
people, towards the Iranian people and the U.S. administration, more
importantly, towards the Iranian government?
That’’s one issue. The second issue is that sanctions really are
unimportant to us because we have been under sanctions for over 30 years.
Furthermore, our economy is not based on the economy of the United States.
It is a self-contained economy, an indigenous-based economy because we are
able to provide for our own needs。
And interestingly, in the years of sanctions that have been imposed on
us, we have also had more incentive to engage in activities that jumpstart
and trigger our economy and we’’ve been quite successful。
Now we know here in the United States, many are very concerned -- many
have made a lot of noise over the sanctions and have even identified
people in Iran who seem to sympathize with views here that sanctions harm
Iran。
But really, that’’s of no concern to us because in -- on the ground
sanctions have, in fact, encouraged us to be firmer in the pursuit of our
economic goals。
The United States government has no relations with us. Has had none
for over 30 years. So what is it that they are sanctioning? We have lived
without the United States for over 30 years. And we have advanced。
When Iran was under the yoke of the United States, it was a backward
country. Since we started living without the United States, we have become
an advanced country. Is that bad for us? I think it’’s quite a positive --
step to take。
金：你是否理解有關對伊朗核武器的擔心？考慮到地區國家的所有敵對情況，你是否理解有關伊朗擁有
核武器的擔心？這可能會引發一些你可能從未啟動的一些事情。
KING: Do you not understand the fears about nuclear -- nuclear
weaponry in your country? With all the hostility in the region, don’’t you
understand the fears over your having nuclear weapons? That could trigger
something that you might not even start。
內：誰在擔心？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Who is concerned?
金：世界在擔心。
KING: The world is concerned。
內：誰是世界？誰代表了世界？美國？它的朋友？不，世界是一個非常大的地方。美國官員的錯誤在
於他們視自己為世界，但他們並不是世界。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Who is the world? Who represents the
world? The United States? Its friends? No, the world is a very big place.
And what U.S. officials are wrong about is that they see themselves as the
world but they are not。
金：好吧，以色列總理內塔尼亞胡最近參與我們的節目。他說，我引用他的話“人類面臨的最大威脅是
伊朗將獲得核武器，人類，這就是世界。
如果以色列對持強烈的看法，你對他們不作出直接的保證，你是否擔心他們可能會首先發起軍事打擊
行動？
KING: All right. Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu was a guest recently
on our program and he said, quote, "The greatest threat facing humanity."
Humanity. That’’s the world. "Is that Iran would acquire nuclear weapons."
If Israel feels that strongly and you don’’t directly assure them,
don’’t you fear that they might do a first strike?
內：所以你認為，我們感到擔心，我們應當對減輕內塔尼亞胡的恐慌和擔心感到擔心？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： So you think that we are concerned
-- we should be concerned about allaying Mr. Netanyahu’’s fears and
concerns?
金：是的。
KING: Yes。
內：我們為什麼要為他作那樣的事？他是誰？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Why should we be doing that for him?
Who is he?